Posted by blogger on December 09, 2009 at 18:45:43:
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My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Jimmy
Posted by Jimmy on December 04, 2009 at 21:39:45:
I have a tricky Section 8 tenant. Background:
She filed a complaint with my local city code enforcement a couple months ago which resulted in me having to repair a number of minor things. Her portion of the rent for this period was placed in escrow.
As soon as I completed the repairs, she immediately had her annual Section 8 inspection and this resulted in a new list of additional repairs. I completed these as well, the first Section 8 inspection set for last week she did not show up for and locked myself and the inspector out. The final inspection is set for next week.
So during the past 4 months her portion of the rent has been in escrow. While I was painting the garage, a few specks of paint landed on her vehicle. She immediately took her vehicle to a local repair shop which gave her an estimate of $300 to repaint. I suspect she did not actually pay the $300 to the repair shop, but simply wiped the few specks of paint off. I received her portion of the past 4 months rent less the $300 estimate.
How do I collect the $300 at this point? Do I file the 3 day notice for non-payment of rent since the rent is not paid in full? This is in the state of Ohio.
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Tim
Posted by Tim on December 08, 2009 at 15:39:30:
It sounds like one of those situations that you have to look back on and laugh about because it is so ridiculous. I have had such experiences. But in order to look back, you have to get your current problem solved. If she’s not current by your estimation, I would do what I could to begin the eviction process. If you’ve never done one before, I always recommend hiring an attorney and watch exactly what they do and learn. In Kansas, a property in an LLC has to be handled by an attorney anyway, but it’s good to know the process. Get em out, clean it up, and get somebody in there who can appreciate having a place to rent. Best of luck!
Tim
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by DJ-nyc
Posted by DJ-nyc on December 06, 2009 at 07:04:49:
I’m in NYC but I would do a non-payment of rent for the $300.00, definitely not renew her lease and keep the pressure on her to get out.
DJ-nyc
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Edwin
Posted by Edwin on December 06, 2009 at 01:04:40:
I agree with others, you must get this loser out of your place pronto. Once that’s done, inflict further damage on her by trying to get her Sec. 8 certificat rescinded for her manipulative behavior. However, your local Housing Authority office will probably NOT do a thing unless you have a judgment. It won’t be enough for you to say, “she left owing me $300.” That’s just your word against hers. They like to see an actual judgment. They can then go to her and say, “pay this judgment or you lose your eligibility.”
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by -Steve-
Posted by -Steve- on December 05, 2009 at 15:26:42:
The Section 8 agreement does not over-ride your lease agreement with the tenant. In fact the tenant has to also comply with your agreement or the tenant is in breach of contract and you can evict. It sounds like section 8 is only paying part of the monthly rent. You keep the money the tenant has paid and file for eviction for the rent not paid. The tenant will also be responsible for any additional rents while the tenant has possession. Don?t forget late fees too. Follow the steps required by your state/local tenant/landlord laws and get?em out. Don?t count on getting any $$ out of your tenant. Your goal is to get them out and re-rented to another tenant.
Shows need to pre-check Ts - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on December 05, 2009 at 10:09:29:
Before I became “learned” in the ways of LL- manipulating Ts I had a T or two like this, but stopped buying their stories and made-up backgrounds long ago.
Today I wouldn’t think of taking ANY T w/o a credit and all other checking-out I could easily and quickly do.
This is the reason for the flourishing of the Rental Ass’n (or Landlord Ass’n) such as our great Olympic Rental Ass’n (now WA LL Ass’n) here in WA State with it’s 15,000+ membership…and its bank of bad T names and histories.
I can with its resources check out any prospective T in a day or two and learn of would-be trouble makers before ever really getting entangled with them.
Recently such a pair (alleged to be H&W, but who knows?)wanted me to buy and L/O a very nice house for them because of some “minor” credit problems they’d had.
While I was interested I was also nervous about just who they were, their backgrounds, etc. and thank God I was because they had quite a local history I later learned.
Felony or two on him, likely some record for her but I couldn’t really satisfactorily check either out fully because, despite my demand, they couldn’t prove their SS #s and in fact gave me 2 NON-EXISTENT SS #s.
Not only did I check them through our LL/T Ass’n but I also checked them with the Fed system www.pacer.gov and found his felonies. Then I went to the Courthouse and read his felony conviction files.
This sleezeball had even used the same PHONY SS #s in his felony trial w/o this being detected, so he basically perjured himself while under oath (another felony)and the prosecutors there didn’t even catch this one.
When I realized they were trying to scam me with phony SS numbers I stopped talking to them.
So I sure recommend you spend a nickel or two checking out T prospects BEFORE getting entangled with them.
lol… - Posted by acw
Posted by acw on December 05, 2009 at 08:49:03:
Man…i would get her arse.
I would get her out of your home…and in trouble with Section 8. Find anyway to get her in violation of your Section 8 agreement and or lease and take that Section 8 cert back from her.
Save all landlords the effort of renting to her in the future…she can crash at her momma’s house and leave everyone else alone.
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by BeachBum
Posted by BeachBum on December 04, 2009 at 22:31:43:
You have made mistakes, but so has your tenant! YOU need to read and learn the landlord tenant laws for your locale. As you have found out, lots of tenants are VERY familiar with them, and will use them to their advantage. It is, however, a two way street!
For starters, what type of repairs triggered this series of events; and what repairs items were raised in the annual re-inspection? If ANY of these were the result of tenant damage or misuse, you should have asserted this at the inspection, so the tenant would be responsible for the cost of repairs. Presumably, at their move IN, everything was OK, so what has happened? If you simply deferred normal maintenance, or used the cheapest handyman you could find to do repairs which have not held up, then you are at fault, and need to take care of business. Frankly, there should not be much that changes from acceptable to unacceptable over one year that is NOT tenant damage.
In the future, you should do your OWN inspection in advance of Section 8, and make any repairs that are necessary so you can PASS first time, and not have a check held up for two or more months while you try to coordinate with contractors, tenants, and the inspectors. You should also have a provision in your rental agreement allowing you to charge the tenant for time lost if they do not show up for scheduled appointments, whether vendors, you, or city/county inspections (if allowed in your jurisdiction).
As to the $300 deduction, first of all, FIRE the painter! You should have protected the tenant’s property. Remember, it may not be much, but it is all THEY have. Plastic drops are cheap. Having said that, again, check your local laws, but usually your rental agreement should have language stating rent due “in full and without demand”; and deductions that might be allowed by law typically relate ONLY to repairs to the home made after the landlord has been properly notified of a defect, and still failed to act within a specified time period. Check your local laws. If this is the case with your specific circumstance, then the tenant is late with “rent”, and you would proceed to evict per local law.
Good Luck! Oh, by the way, you can find a copy of the Section 8 inspection form here:
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Ken
Posted by Ken on December 04, 2009 at 22:01:36:
I would file for non payment of rent but I would not renew her lease and get rid of her
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on December 05, 2009 at 19:02:45:
Good advice.
I’d also copy your Sec. 8 office on anything/everything you send to or serve on the T so they’ll know what kind of *&%^^ the T is and this’ll dampen their enthusiasm for that T.
Question re www.pacer.gov - Posted by wpage
Posted by wpage on December 05, 2009 at 19:01:43:
John Merchant Could you please tell me if I could find out if someone in Florida has a criminal record and what the status is, even though I only have their name and present address. thanks in advance or any info you may give.
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Jimmy
Posted by Jimmy on December 04, 2009 at 23:45:36:
Do I have to refund the portion of the rent she has already paid (she mailed her portion for the past 4 months less the paint estimate)? Or can I keep it and file for non payment of rent?
Re: Question re www.pacer.gov - Posted by lukeNC
Posted by lukeNC on December 07, 2009 at 19:05:54:
pacer will only give you federal cases…
you’ll have to check with the state level in order to find anything else…
Re: Question re www.pacer.gov - Posted by John Merchant
Posted by John Merchant on December 05, 2009 at 21:42:58:
Pacer is free(some small per page cost to see the actual documents) and gives any looker with the patience to go through its steps felony convictions and/or BK filings on anybody.
It should tell you what you want to know.
Once you’ve found the person on Pacer, you can learn more about him/her incl his/her SS # which has to have been included in any BK filing in order for him/her to have obtained a Discharge.
Good luck.
Re: My Clever Section 8 Tenant - Posted by Ken
Posted by Ken on December 05, 2009 at 22:51:16:
You keep the rent she paid for previous months.You need an attorney or knowledgable landlord to help with this one until you get more experienced.This tenant seems to be more experienced at this than you are.